• What All New Cancer Patients Need to KNOW by Chris Wark an 11 Survivor of Colon Cancer.

    Asked by barryboomer on Saturday, February 14, 2015

    What All New Cancer Patients Need to KNOW by Chris Wark an 11 Survivor of Colon Cancer.

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/853754918001287/

    16 Answers from the Community

    16 answers
    • po18guy's Avatar
      po18guy

      Barry, for the sake of full disclosure: Chris had all detectable cancer cut out. Chris beat cancer because he had surgery. What he has chosen to do since is admirable, but what he says carries the potential to be fatally misleading to new patients. He won the lottery when the cancer did not return - which means that his doctors were very good at what they did. His cancer not returning is not proof of anything except it has not returned.

      He maintains that building the immune system up via diet is the answer. Maybe. Maybe not. What if you were born with a genetically sub-par immune system? Are vegan foods going to miraculously give you a new immune system? Fix up the old one? We can all hope, but hope should be based on something more substantial than wishful thinking.

      As well, another flaw in his logic is the stress he places on diet magically rebuilding the immune system. A fine opinion, but is it true? I am not willing to bet my life on some interwebz dude's opinion. He maintains that his natural diet builds it back up, but this is something that cannot be proven. The effectiveness of the immune system cannot be measured. That is crucial.

      And to state that our rapidly dividing cancer is not the problem, but our immune system is? At a very early stage in the disease process, he is correct. After the tumor defeats your immune system (if it is a tumor, it already has), it will kill you faster than anything will boost your immune system. How on earth is a slowly reconstituted immune system supposed to defeat a rapidly expanding mass that the immune system was never intended to deal with in the first place?

      And, what about those who had an environmental exposure to a cancer-causing agent? They have cancer even though their immune system may never have been compromised? How is a natural diet going to improve a perfectly functioning immune system? Wishful thinking.

      As we have seen before*, 3,000 year old mummies in Peru have tumors. They probably died from those tumors. So? They ate 100% natural foods. A 100% organic diet did not prevent the cancer. 100% natural medicine and diet did not cure them.

      Eating a vegan/vegetarian/organic diet is fine. Recommended if that is for you. The huge caveat here, and what I truly dislike about alternative remedy zealots is that they "imply" that medicine is not or may not be needed.

      That can be fatal. We must realize that Chris can speak only for himself, and he had his cancer cut out. Wishful thinking does not cancer survivors make.

      *The Emperor of all Maladies, author: Siddhartha Mukherjee

      over 4 years ago
    • barryboomer's Avatar
      barryboomer

      We can agree to disagree. He has a video for new patients that are NOT about NOT DOING this or that but mostly that they have a little time to check things out.

      He was lucky or maybe really worked HARD at what he does. He threw a lot more at the cancer than just a Vegan diet...SO you don't have ALL the facts about him and you come with a bias. I DON'T want this discussion.....I just put this up as something interesting and different AND I respect your point of view. You're just a big nay sayer in My Opinion....Last thing I'll say about this. Information is just that information.....ALSO after chemo the immunes system NEED rapid and strong rebuilding....and that's a fact. DONE...

      over 4 years ago
    • keahemalie's Avatar
      keahemalie

      Barry, I did read Chris's blog. Food for thought, so to speak. I think when members post links, they're for information only and honestly, I appreciate them cuz there's SO much info out there. Of course the content won't apply to everyone but the readers can glean what info speaks to them. I think po18's comment works in the same way. We all may be on the same journey but we all choose our own paths. Thanks for sharing!

      over 4 years ago
    • barryboomer's Avatar
      barryboomer

      It's just information and shouldn't be afraid of it. People sometimes come with certain biases that can hold them back. Don't just have a kneejerk reaction about Chris......His situation is different than mine and yours BUT He does a LOT of good and is a Good Person. He has a great facebook page also and just shares info and has great survivor videos offering hope to all. No need to trash anybody.....I supply information and Information is Powerful and should never be marginalized out of hand .....read it all and make up your own mind. Censorship is NOT GOOD.

      over 4 years ago
    • po18guy's Avatar
      po18guy

      Barry, you may fervently believe one man's opinion. You may desire very strongly that it is true. You may hang your hope on the belief that it really is true.

      That does not make it true.

      Some are big on steering cancer patients toward alternatives to medicine. But, should we, must we, consider all possible alternative ideas? We were given brains and prudential judgment so as to eliminate what is obviously nonsense.

      Sadly, Chris' logic and methodology are highly flawed in that he assumes that lack of cancer (after he had it all cut out) must naturally be the product of gorging himself on whatever he could stuff into his juicer. He has wishfully constructed, or fabricated a causal relationship between the two. I believe that he is deceiving himself.

      His apparent lack of cancer is zero evidence that anything he has done has prevented its return. Such thinking is methodologically identical to maintaing that cigarettes prevent cancer as long as you smoke and do not have cancer.

      You have the right to believe that we should consider each and every alternative to science-based medicine. Please remember that if alternative medicine actually worked, it would not be alternative.

      Are there alternative medicine testimonials? Lots of them! But, they each rely on the same flawed logic as related to causation. I can tell you that daily dark-roasted coffee and dark chocolate clearly prevent MS. Why? Because I consume them and do not have MS. You see no flaw in this logic? That's what Chris is using.

      You may think that I am trying to shut down the conversation. Rather, I am encouraging those with cancer to limit their choices to that which actually works. A new cancer diagnosis is traumatic enough. Throwing untested, unproven alternatives into the mix threatens those patients' recovery.

      over 4 years ago
    • keahemalie's Avatar
      keahemalie

      So what does one do when diagnosed with a very rare type of cancer that cancer specialists, the best of the best, cannot advise a treatment protocol because a protocol doesn't exist? They "suggest" this or that after cutting out what they can "see" as diseased but can't provide statistics and data to backup one treatment over another. If those same specialists can offer only "untested, unproven" treatment choices, how does an already traumatized patient decide what to do besides researching ALL options available and using their own best judgement?

      over 4 years ago
    • barryboomer's Avatar
      barryboomer

      Po Guy....I talk but you don't seem to hear me. Many people are so busy thinking up their response that they don't hear what the other person is saying.
      FOR THE LAST TIME..
      Afraid to put up different ideas in the fears that a few people will do what is bad for them is censorship. I and Chris NEVER tells anybody what THEY Should do....He is just telling HIS Story and information about nutrition and studies and shares other's stories....I don't understand WHY you can't just let it be. NOBODY mostly ME is telling anybody NOT to take treatments etc.
      GEEZE....Listen a little will you? You imply people are saying and doing what they are not.

      over 4 years ago
    • po18guy's Avatar
      po18guy

      keahemalie: You have described my situation exactly. No standard treatment. Clinical trial is the recommendation. So, I participated in two clinical trials. One worked very well, while the other did not. In the meantime, I am on a newly approved drug that was recently in a clinical trial. Clinical trials are how all new drugs reach the market. That is what you do.

      We do not need relativism which thinks that all claimed "cures" are equal. We do not need wishful thinking. We need hard science that provides reliable, repeatable statistics and results. That is how progress is made. It is very easy to kill cancer cells in a Petrie dish. You and I can do it. But, that does not necessarily translate to the human body. Numerous drugs that were effective in vitro and in animal testing could not provide results in humans.

      Let's use our critical thinking skills here: baking soda? Are you kidding me? Load your system up with alkalinity and you kill the body. Those who promote such "miracle" cures are shortsighted or just plain ignorant of what they re fighting. I have yet to see a verifiable survivor of any "alternative cancer treatment." I keep thinking back to Joe Isuzu saying "You have my word on it." Right.

      My cancer went away at this time last year. Should I claim that my usual diet cured it? Nonsense! It was a spontaneous remission, as nothing was changed. Since I drink coffee and eat chocolate, should I begin selling that as a miracle cure? I mean, I ate and drank it and the cancer went away!

      That is the type of logic that miracle cure sellers use to sell you their stuff. They offer zero guarantees. They have no solid scientific research to demonstrate their claims. No verifiable numbers to back their claims up. Their "testimonials" may come from people who did not have cancer. How do you know? They are in the game to make money from desperate cancer patients. My dad died after falling for such a scam.

      True: medicine does not have solutions for all human illness. The World Health Organization lists 68,069 known human diseases and conditions. Many times that number are unknown. We humans are the most complex of all creations by a large factor. The shocking fact is not that some of us are dying - rather that many more of us are living.

      Curing an extremely complex, living and morphing enemy is not as simple as raiding a pantry or an herb garden. Beware of those who tell you it is.

      over 4 years ago
    • po18guy's Avatar
      po18guy

      Barry, you say so.

      over 4 years ago
    • barryboomer's Avatar
      barryboomer

      Agree with everything you say Po Guy....there is NO cure for cancer for the most part and there is no cure for death either....lol
      Hope you live for a long time and feel great.

      over 4 years ago
    • po18guy's Avatar
      po18guy

      Thank you. You are a true gentleman. Personally, I do not believe that something is worth listening to simply because someone says it. There is more nonsense in our world than at any other time. Critical thinking and prudential judgment are gifts that we have been blessed with. If something verifiably works, people will use it. Knowing that our lives are on the line, I must defer to the scientific method, which is the best predictor of results. Nevertheless, thank the Lord that you and I are both alive to have these interesting "discussions"! :-D

      over 4 years ago
    • keahemalie's Avatar
      keahemalie

      Yeah, OK... I got your point several paragraphs ago. Unfortunately there are no clinical trials for me; I'm glad there was for you. But I'd like to believe that people are smart enough to know what's nonsense and what isn't, to take in information and decide what course to take for themselves. It's that simple.

      P.S. Who is Joe Isuzu?

      over 4 years ago
    • barryboomer's Avatar
      barryboomer

      I've had an interesting thing happen in the past 4 weeks after 16 months....3 large nodes went completely down....and the left side of my neck is pretty clear now. Right side of my neck is still doing it's thing and what is happening INSIDE....ugh! Don't even want to know. I don't know if my body is doing better or it's nothing but I prefer to believe that I'm doing better. Scared all the time and get a lot of depressed days and nights.....Doing the best I CAN.

      over 4 years ago
    • keahemalie's Avatar
      keahemalie

      Well, let's go with you're doing better. Hope and love can keep the scary monsters away and not in the mirror.

      Gotta admit my monsters have been visiting lately, too. Watching TV last night and suddenly got a sharp pain in my scapula, then neck, chest, left arm...thought I was having a heart attack! Lasted about 10 minutes then slowly faded away. WTF was that?! Thing is I don't even want to know, stupid as that sounds. And the world keeps turning...

      over 4 years ago
    • po18guy's Avatar
      po18guy

      Actor David Leisure did Isuzu commercials back in the 80s. He was a stereotypical lying car salesman who made unkeepable promises. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNOvNrZ6S_E

      Sadly, the only problem with common sense these days is that it is no longer common. Thus, an internet claim of a "cure" may make sense to someone who has not studied the disease and is desperate. I try to steer them away from the web and toward what will offer them the best chance.

      Education about one's own illness makes the difference. Even though my family is riddled with cancer, I knew nothing at the start. And, I will grant you that some cancers are so rare that little is known about them. In that case, one should simply seek out the best chance for successful treatment. Yet, cancer drugs are not specific to a single type. A research doctor can often put something together (as occurred in my case) that will bring a response. My prognosis was poor in 2008. It dropped to very poor in early 2009. I will stick with what offers me the best chance.

      over 4 years ago
    • keahemalie's Avatar
      keahemalie

      I like to say "You can't teach common sense. You either have it or you don't." And, yes, fewer people stop to listen to the quiet voice within. But even after being a nurse for a few decades, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. As for myself, I listen to my treatment team and mostly trust what they say and do what I can to stick around longer than they say I will. So far, it's working. Here's to "best chances"! <3

      over 4 years ago

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